St. Regis Mohawk leaders are saying hundreds of jobs will be lost because of Gov. Paterson’s recent decision to prohibit Native Americans from selling tax-free cigarettes to non-natives , as reported by WWNY-tv.
North Country Public Radio also recently reported on the issue, noting native tribes are vowing to fight the law in court, , saying it violates their sovereignty. Jim Ransom, chief of the St. Regis Mohawk Tribe in Akwesasne, says it also would make the economy worse and deepen an already grave smuggling problem.
It may well be true some jobs will be lost at the many convenience stores, smoke shops and gas stations on the Akwesasne reservation because cigarettes and other tobacco products would be more expensive. The jobs of people employed at six cigarette manufacturers on the reservation would also be in jeopardy.
But it’s worth it to require the taxes on tobacco sold on the reservation.
Sure, we want to do everything we can to create and retain jobs in our economically depressed North Country.
But cancer is hideous disease. How many of us have family members or friends who have suffered a painful death due to lung cancer? And think of the millions of dollars in health care costs that are wasted caring for people who could have avoided getting lung cancer if they had quit smoking or not started in the first place.
Taxing tobacco – along with education -- discourages people from continuing or not starting the addictive tobacco habit.
And in this case, the health and well-being of our population trumps the importance of jobs.
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28 comments:
With all of the illegal activity that goes with the untaxed cigarettes I feel no sympathy for the tribe.
While the loss of any job is a regrettable experience, so too will the loss of other jobs across NYS when cuts come to nursing homes, hospitals, human service agencies, and the humanities should NYS not act to collect its due. Has anyone stopped to count how many jobs these illegal or discount cigarette transactions have cost the legitimate stores in NYS? Perhaps closing off the border around the reservation as if it were Canada would make a better answer. When people can't afford to go throw away money at the casino, whose fault will the gaming officials call out? Still not theirs, despite the social bloodsucking that these businesses cause for its people and the others that traffic there. Say goodbye.
The poor Mohawks crying again about this issue.
The Masked Warriors surely will protest and lead to violence as it did in1979 and 1989 in Akwesasne, 1990 in Oka, Quebec and Kahnawake, Quebec.
There were two murders from sporatic gunfire. No convictions ever occured.
Lest not forget 1997 in Onondaga on the NYS Thruway that ended up with NYSP assaulted.
Most recently the Senecas near Buffalo blocked the NYS Thruway in protest over the tax on smokes.
Did I fail to mention that children work in the illegal factories on the rez? Seriously 14 -16 year olds are employed in these factories.
Smuggling will always take place. The Mohawks have smuggled for 500 years and continue to do so. If it's not smokes or marijuana it's something else. Remember when JACOBS was arrested for smuggling cattle in the US a couple of years ago?
Jim Ransom is a hypocrite. He claims to be a member of the Longhouse, but he is an elected member of the three chief system. He also is a licensed NYS Insurance broker. Longhouse members claim not to participate in the elected system or participate with any State or Federal licensing agency.
This is another chapter of the Native claim of erosion of their imaginary sovereignty that has not existed since 1948 and 1950 when the US Congress gave NYS the power to exercise criminal and civil jurisdiction over the NY Indians.
The Mohawks will lose in court. This matter has been litagetd in People v. Boots (1980) in Franklin County Court. Sure enough the lawyer for that case was the infamous Bill Kunstler.
The courts have said NY has civil and criminal jurisdiction over the Mohawks. Eventually the New York State Court of appeals upheld that case in People v. Smoke.
Jim Ransom is blowing smoke!
My back of the envelope calculation does not support the assertion that we would save anything if everybody quit smoking tomorrow. In fact, it appears that those that die for lung cancer actually are less of a financial burden then those that don't get lung cancer.
1. The average age of a person getting lung cancer is roughly 70 years old.
2. The average age of death for a lung cancer patient is less then a year (71).
3. The life expectancy of a 70 year old is 86.2 years for a woman and 83.7 for a male.
4. The average SS payment is $826.10/month for a woman and $1,076.10/month for a man.
5. The average cost of treating a lung cancer patient for the first year is $24,700.
(Above is in 2004 dollars.)
The person that dies from lung cancer doesn't collect social security. The average SS costs alone of the persons that doesn't get lung cancer is about $160,000 for a woman and $176,000 for a man. This does not include the medical costs of those same people that didn't get lung cancer. Care to estimate what those cost would be?
I am not suggesting we should not discourage smoking. I am saying that making your argument based on the economics is fatally flawed.
Using taxes as a tool to regulate behavior is just wrong.
While the health hazards of smoking are not underplayed....what is a bigger issue here is the State legislating governance over what has legally been deemed sovereign territory by treaty....the State has no more right to impose this on Indian land than they do to try and impose regulations on Canada....if the State wants to regulate non Natives from purchasing goods on Native American territory than they will have to set up Customs offices just as they do at the Mexican and Canadian borders and regulate the purchase of goods entering US territory in the same way. We should respect the rights of the Native Americans to govern themselves on their own land....and the State should regulate activities on State land....whoever breaks laws on State land...either Native American or others can be prosecuted by the State....Stay off the Mohawk reservations and respect the treaties that have been agreed to
Smokers do not save anybody money. This sounds like Rush Limbaugh nonsense.
Smoking has largely become come a class concept in America. The more poor, uneducated, and ininsured you are, the more likely you are to smoke. Sorry that isn't 'politically correct', but it is true.
Smokers don't just get heart attacks or cancer and die a year later. Their kids go to the hospital more, (where government picks up the bill) and they go to the hospital more. My own secretary smokes and misses more sick time than everybody else in my office combined. Since it is a state job, I hope everybody like their taxes paying for her sub.
If I hit myself in the face with a hammer for fun, and then took sick time off all the time I would be fired. Why "I inhale fire" counts as a legitimate sick excuse is beyond me.
If the rez is truly sovereign territory, then should native americans be applying for visas to work in the US. You can't have it both ways. Take advantage of NYS welfare while at the same time claiming sovereignty. If they really want to be independent, then they should collect their own taxes and provide their own services instead of scabing everything from residents of NYS and then complain about it. How fast would natives be begging to join the good ole USA? Don't give me any BS about the natives being here first. Colonization has gone on for centuries and the only reason natives haven't been integrated is because of our ultra PC society.
The taxation that is going to be enforced is for non-natives purchasing cigarettes on the reservation. I cannot see what is wrong with that. As far as the native american go, get a life Ransom is constantly on the dole. They receive money from the federal government that they piss away and who know where the revenue from the casino is going. They don't even know. The reality is that there smuggling enterprises bring in more money that anyone can understand. I have trouble feeling sorry for someone when they constantly lie about there status. It is time to get rid of the reservations and make them either american or canadians and get on with the evloution of man.
Save a few jobs, most of which do not contribute income tax, or save an entire species - the answer is obvious. Sorry, well not really.
First of all we are called Native Americans because we are the First American natives of North America. We did not ask for the International border to be put here and we did not put ourselves on Reservations. The cigarette stores, gas stations and Casino employees are majority Non-Natives. The Casino revenues benefit are given to St. Lawrence County and Franklin County. If you do not like the reservation or the Natives than stay off the rez. We are survivors, and we will survive this.
Smuggling has been here for thousands of years (where do you think the Kennedys got all their Money$$$$) and will be for thousands of more.
We are not looking for sympathy only for you to understand our treaties, soverienty status and traditions!
I am not Native american, and I moved out of the North Country out need a few years back.
Stay out of the Res! It is designated sovereign land. They are self governed, US & STATE government stay out.
Let the greedy governor, who is trying to repair years of poor state management, get his money from his new tax plan to come soon. Everything will be taxed in the state soon.
That should certainly welcome more business, commerce & tourists. New York will continue its plummet!
I see no reason why non-natives shouldn't pay taxes. Natives don't have to pay the taxes, but where does it state that everybody else doesn't?
And if the rez wants to really be sovereign then nobody who lives there and has their name on the tribal clan list should be eligible to recieve gov't funding of any kind: welfare, HEAP, HUD, food stamps. They shouldn't be given special spots in colleges and jobs to fill a minority status slot. If they want to be a soveriegn nation then let's treat them like we'd treat Canadians. Does an unemployed Canadian qualify to receive SSI, Disability or Welfare through NYS? Of course not, because they live in a different country. Let it be the same with natives.
But they'd rather have their cake and eat it, too.
And BTW -- anybody that thinks any of this has to do with health and the health hazards of smoking is smoking something of their own. This is all about MONEY and nothing else. NYS is not that altruistic.
Re. "Taxing tobacco – along with education -- discourages people from continuing or not starting the addictive tobacco habit."
It should be of no concern to government what people do with their lives. Taxing a behavior because some government moralist doesn't agree with it is abhorrent.
Re. "...despite the social bloodsucking that these businesses cause for its people and the others that traffic there."
Did someone hold a gun to their head? Don't blame the provider of a service because people want to consume it.
Re, " This is another chapter of the Native claim of erosion of their imaginary sovereignty that has not existed since 1948 and 1950 when the US Congress gave NYS the power to exercise criminal and civil jurisdiction over the NY Indians.
Right on! This has nothing at all to do with jobs, the economy, or bad social behaviors. The tribe is engaging in an illegal activity and it should be stopped - end of story.
I am a 31 year old smoker. In good shape, a little less than "normal" body weight. 5'6", 150lbs. I have a non-smoking coworker who is 5'7", 230lbs. Yet I'll have to pay this tax and he won't. How does that make him more healthy than me. I say go to the source and start taxing people based on the difference between healthy weight and actual weight. A range would probably work best. Then you would actually see people do something about their weight instead of going on all these fake "todays flavor" diets that will never work. You can't substitute a real solution for a quick fix. Tax the fat not the soda and beer. And to the guy who pointed out the demographic of a "smoker". You have no clue what you are talking about. I graduated from college, have a white collar job, make good money, can't stand rednecks (or people that try to be), and I have had insurance for 5 years and haven't used it except for the time I broke my leg. I would suggest that you educate ignorant self before making generalizations that do nothing to advance the debate.
And another thing, I'm not sure if you keep up with the news but the POTUS smokes. I guess he's another one of those uneducated, poor, uninsured people who are always at the hospital. Maybe your secratary doesn't like you and that's why she doesn't come to work. I've never met you and I don't like you. There, inhale that fire.
Why is it that whenever a tax issue comes up alot of people point to the native americans as if it is their problem? Who came up with the tax system, no not the Iroquois. The people in this state forget all to fast that people living on reservations buy goods and services from communities in this state and Canada too. They help your local businesses by buying from them. But, no one remembers this when issues like this come to the table.
YOU ARE ALL IGNORANT IF YOU THINK SMUGGLING ONLY EXISTS IN AKWESASNE. WE HAVE THOUSAND MILES OF SHORE AND ALL OF IT IS SHARED WITH THE CANADIANS, THERE ARE HOW MANY STATES THAT BORDER CANADA AND MEXICO. DON'T BLAME THE MOHAWKS FOR THE FAILURES ON WALL STREET AND YEARS OF CORRUPTION IN ALBANY. I AM A PERSON WHO SITS ON BOTH SIDES AS I AM HALF WHITE AND NATIVE. I DO FEEL SHAME FOR ALL THE BAD DEALINGS ON THE RESERVE AND I FEEL IT IS TIME THAT CRIME BE PUT DOWN BUT AT THE SAME TIME I FEEL MORE SHAME FOR OUR US GOVERNMENT AND MOREOVER NY STATE GOVERNTMENT FOR ROBBING ITS CITIZENS TO STRENGHTHEN THE "FINANCE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD" IF THIS IS THE COST TO HOUSE THE nyse THAN GIVE IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE NONE OF US UP HERE CAN AFFORD TO INVEST ANYWAY, BUT TURNING OUR BACK ON TREATIES IS NOT THE WAY TO GO WE ARE FIGHTING WARS WITH GROUPS ALL OVER THE WORLD BECAUSE THE AMERICANS CAN ONLY KEEP THEIR WORD AS LONG AS THEY CAN AFFORD TO. NO MORALS IN GOVERNMENT AND AFTER READING THESE POSTS NOT MUCH MORALS HERE EITHER.
Smokers do not save anybody money. This sounds like Rush Limbaugh nonsense.
Actually it comes from places like The National Cancer Institute, The CDC, and the Census Bureau.
What is enlightening is asking people what percentage of smokers they think get lung cancer. Most peoples guesses are wildly high.
Tax cigarettes of all varieties and origins !
No more excuses
If the rez claims to be a soveriegn nation -- then NO more Federal or State tax $$ should be spent to assist this" "soveriegn nation" without a quid pro quo that is MUTUALLY adventageous
First of all we should ALL be working towards banning alcohol. That should be our number one priority. If people that have commented here are so adamant against tobacco, alcohol is FAR worse, and I know you will all support the removal of alcohol from our shores.
The time has come to tax cigarettes on the reservation. It is in the best interest of everybody. Hopefully the amount of illegal activities and violence that untaxed cigarettes brings to the people that live there and in the surrounding communities will subside.
It will make it possible to keep up the monies that the State gives to the people who live there to continue and serve the greater good for everybody.
The State should return to looking into running its own casinos once again. The time has come for that too.
It's about time they get a grip on illegal things happening on the Reservation. They are no more Native American than anyone else that is born on this land. They should pay equally like everyone else in this country does to support OUR country.
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